Stephanie Kelton appears on UP with Chris Hayes
Posted by WARREN MOSLER on January 11th, 2013
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MMT: Taxes function to regulate aggregate demand, and not to raise revenue per se.
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January 12th, 2013 at 12:31 am
Mint the Coin segment may have been cancelled. I believe that Philip Diehl was also on the same segment. He just put a short note to that effect at Monetary Realism
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January 12th, 2013 at 8:44 am
@Clonal Antibody,
Does anyone smell something funny?
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chewitup Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 9:09 am
@chewitup,
8:08am. Good start so far on msnbc. Stephanie is on.
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January 12th, 2013 at 9:23 am
She’s hitting it out of the park…
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chewitup Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 10:13 am
@Matt Franko,
That went pretty well, except for Joe apologizing for Geithner. Hopefully lots of people watched.
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Ed Rombach Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 10:22 am
@Matt Franko,
Agreed. A Tour De Force for Stephanie Kelton!
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Fin Reply:
January 14th, 2013 at 11:21 am
@Matt Franko,
Not so sure, the 2 commentators who took the other side didn’t seem at all deterred…which is probably a good proxy for the general population.
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January 12th, 2013 at 10:40 am
I missed all but the last. I hope someone can post a video.
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nobody Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
@John Wilkins,
Here ya go.
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ESM Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
@nobody,
Couldn’t find the Kelton segment there, but I did watch Hayes’ segment on the $1T platinum coin. He ended it with a claim that money’s value is derived merely from a social convention – that it has value simply because we all agree that it has value.
I’ve found this to be a widespread myth. I think almost everybody I have ever met who is not on board with MMT believes this and has no understanding of how taxes drive value under our system. They believe all you need for a fiat currency is social convention and a legal tender law.
Whether this is a problem or not, I’m not sure. If you don’t understand the real role of taxes in driving value, then you might believe the government has to get all of its dollars from taxing and borrowing or else the whole money illusion will fall apart.
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Adam (ak) Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
@ESM,
One of the segments starts here:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/49263362#50441090
If you want more, go to the left hand-side tab under “Shows” and select “Up with Chris”. A second tab would appear on the left, select one of the segments you want to watch.
I will be more than happy if the “platinum coin” meme does its job – helps dismantling a “Treasury View”/Neo-Classical illusion that the government has to borrow pre-existing money in order to spend and is subjected to financial (not real) constraints. We should go back to Abba Lerner’s ideas and start a debate about real, not imaginary issues.
Monica Smith Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
@ESM, It makes no sense to argue that the public corporation, which produces money manifest as electronic bites in a computer, has no money and has to collect some from the populace. The only reason to collect taxes on the federal level is to keep the currency moving. But, that means what comes in has to go out again. Rationing or reducing the amount available to the real economy by giving a “cut” to the financiers to play with does not keep it moving. Evidence is to be found in the fact that the velocity of the dollar has shrunk over the last twenty years. And the data reflect that the quality of life has decreased, as well. Our population is less healthy, less long-lived, less educated and less well fed than it used to be. Part of the deterioration of health is a consequence of industrial contamination in the past — contamination that was also driven by the “fact” that there was never enough money to clean up after themselves. Using a shortage of money as an excuse not to do what people don’t want to do is a long-standing habit. It’s a convenient excuse also favored by spouses who left their pay at the pub instead of paying the tab at the grocer’s.
That adults have an obligation to care for the subsequent and the preceding generation is a real hang up. And the longer people live, the worse it gets. So resentment grows. Using money to let somebody else provide the care at least ameliorates the antagonisms genetic relationships sometimes generate. But, it only works, if there is enough money. People who deprived themselves in order to save for their old age and then see those moneys squandered by con men are naturally distressed. Because they were conned and our lawmakers played a part. But then, the law was used from the start to deprive the majority of most of their rights.
The law as deprivator-in-chief is a marvelous invention. No body whose head can be offed.
MRW Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
@John Wilkins, go to MSNBC and watch each segment.
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January 12th, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Pretty nice. They actually showed an image of this website in the intro. Dr. Kelton is getting lots of play in the mainstream media. If nothing else, the TDC has forced people to stop and think about the nature of money.
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Matt Franko Reply:
January 12th, 2013 at 4:55 pm
@jcmccutcheon, Yeah, some more thinking to go though, the gal from the Guardian asserted that we should not use seignorage to create balances to redeem Treasury securities because it might hurt our credit rating…. similar to the GOPer being very concerned about our ‘credibility’ if we redeem these securities …. quite a way to go yet… rsp,
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markg Reply:
January 13th, 2013 at 10:30 am
@Matt Franko,
Matt,
Notice how the arguement has changed. The Dems have been saying we need more revenue to pay for spending. The GOP has been saying we don’t have the money so we need to cut entitlement spending. Now it is about “credibility”, “financial markets” and an assortment of other issues. I would call out both sides and ask them why they have changed their tune now that the tpc is out there.
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Matt Franko Reply:
January 13th, 2013 at 8:56 pm
@markg,
Mark,
Good observation… It seems like at core both sides just are very libertarian right now and they just cant see the govt having this authority (even though it does…)
so they will come up with literally any excuse (even if they dont make sense) to denigrate a concept such as coin seignorage…
I think most in paradigm look at this mathematically and for us it becomes “the tyranny of the math” and we have to agree with it… but those remaining out of paradigm cant see the math and they are libertarian and their political views do not see the govt having this authority… they want to look at it as the govt “has to borrow from the people” type thing… both sides… very libertarian. rsp,
January 14th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Off topic,
Paul McCulley has new paper
“…(1) monetary policy on its own is ineffective as it lacks willing private borrowers to respond to monetary stimulus; that…
…(2) fiscal policy is highly effective, but on its own it may be politically constrained to embark on meaningful stimulus; and that…
…(3) fiscal-monetary cooperation under such macro constellations can help solve the problem that each authority faces on its own:…”
http://www.interdependence.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Helicopter_Money_Final1.pdf
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