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MOSLER'S LAW: There is no financial crisis so deep that a sufficiently large tax cut or spending increase cannot deal with it.

Peter Schiff Show

Posted by WARREN MOSLER on November 16th, 2011

Warren will be on the Peter Schiff Show tomorrow, 11/17/2011, at 10:33 am EST.

Find your local station here, to listen live.

Or stream here.

Otherwise this loop will play for 24 hours after the conclusion of the show.

Topic:

>   
>   As for topics, I thought we could talk about your piece on inflation failing to manifest
>   despite the dire warnings.
>   

101 Responses to “Peter Schiff Show”

  1. wh10 Says:

    O man! This is excellent!

    Reply

    Robert Kelly Reply:

    @wh10,
    From Shiff’s website-

    “$15,000,000,000,000 ain’t nothin but a number! Today’s guest is Warren Mosler, economist & founder of Mosler Automotive, on taxpayers’ GM albatross and why inflation hawks need to just chillax and let pols keep spending.
    Peter is looking forward to your calls on politics, finance, and the economy.”

    Hopefully he’ll let Warren complete his sentences! Break a leg Warren.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    thanks for the head’s up!

    the larger answer to the GM thing is the govt has a responsibility not to let its policies choke off demand, but that’s another story

    Reply

    wh10 Reply:

    @Robert Kelly,

    I like how he leaves out Mosler’s storied history as an investor.

    Reply

    Robert Kelly Reply:

    @wh10,
    Listening to this interview reminded me of an old joke about an ice cream shop.
    Peter- I’d like to some chocolate ice cream.
    Warren- I’m sorry sir. We are out of chocolate.
    Peter- OK then, I’ll have a chocolate sundae.
    Warren- Like I said sir, we are out of chocolate.
    Peter- Alright, how about a chocolate shake.
    Warren- We are out of chocolate sir.
    Peter- Just give me a chocolate cone then.
    Warren- Sir, how do you spell straw as in strawberry?
    Peter- S T R A W
    Warren- Very good. How do you spell van as in vanilla?
    Peter- V A N
    Warren- Outstanding. How do you spell f**k as in chocolate?
    Peter- There is no f**k in chocolate.
    Warren- Exactly. That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.

  2. Kristjan Says:

    This is good even though I was hoping for visual. :)

    Reply

  3. Broll The American Says:

    I’m more excited about this that the Superbowl! Give ‘em hell Warren!

    Reply

  4. Mythbuster Says:

    http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2011/11/austrian-monetary-mental-mysteries-for-what-i-hope-is-the-one-last-time.html

    Good short piece debunking Austrian monetary theory.

    Reply

  5. Michael Norman Says:

    Cool. Can’t wait!

    Reply

  6. Anon Seven Says:

    Warren,

    http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/10/on-my-adventure-on-peter-schiff-show.html

    http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/10/how-peter-schiff-show-interview-really.html

    If he interrupts you and keeps talking, it’s because he hit the mute button and nobody can hear you.

    He’s going to dominate the conversation and control it and make you sound like a fool.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    pay back for our last conversation in front of the Independent Party in Ct? After that exchange they asked me to run on their ticket.

    Reply

  7. Mario Says:

    here we GO!!!

    Reply

  8. Unforgiven Says:

    Schiff has a marketing machine to protect.

    Nonetheless, I think Warren will be prepared; I think he’s been down this road before.

    Reply

  9. jcmccutcheon Says:

    >
    > As for topics, I thought we could talk about your piece on inflation failing to manifest
    > despite the dire warnings.
    >
    I bet he says his forecast was accurate because the government does not accurately report inflation + if you measure inflation by looking at price of gold or oil then he was right.

    Reply

  10. TC Says:

    Schiff has no idea what he’s done. You should repeat your wager.

    Reply

  11. Joe C Says:

    Live stream here:

    http://tunein.com/program/?ProgramId=332013&StationId=141833

    Reply

    Kristjan Reply:

    @Joe C,
    I am in Europe, is the Eastern time 10:23 now?

    Reply

    Joe C Reply:

    @Kristjan,

    Here comes Warren -

    Time now 10:30 EST

    Reply

    Kristjan Reply:

    @Joe C,
    Thanks´,
    Schiff is just like any regular person going by his intuition. There is nothing you can do with him

  12. Broll The American Says:

    @Kristjan, Yes.

    Reply

  13. Matt Franko Says:

    Schiff thought St. Croix was in Florida!

    Reply

    Joe C Reply:

    @Matt Franko,

    Ya, and crossed state and federal income tax.

    Reply

    Matt Franko Reply:

    @Joe C, Schiff is really gold selling in the commercials….

    Reply

    Matt Franko Reply:

    @Matt Franko, If Schiff agrees with Warren then Schiff is out of the gold selling business. Hence, Schiff cannot agree with Warren.

    Matt Franko Reply:

    @Matt Franko, Now he is misrepresenting in the post interview broadcast….

    wh10 Reply:

    @Matt Franko,

    Hilarious if he follows through on his interest to move his business there haha.

    Reply

  14. Broll The American Says:

    Peter’s mic is like 4x as loud.
    I like Warren’s term of “you’ve strung a lot of things together.”
    Peter just blathers the same paranoid rhetoric that any laymen would subscribe to.

    Reply

  15. Broll The American Says:

    Ugh… that guy is a real ass. By controlling the mic and the volume he steamrolled the whole interview.

    Reply

    Joe C Reply:

    @Broll The American,

    Shorter Warren: Reduced taxes will help spur the demand side of GDP formula.

    Shorter Schiff: I agree with you Warren. Eliminate all taxes and reduce government to the police force in my CT neighborhood. Anything else is inflationary. Thanks for being on the show today!

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    yes, but pretty obviously to any listener.

    and he failed to engage on the idea of unspent income causing the need for lower taxes which I made pretty clear.

    he also agreed that there is no solvency issue for govt, and also the trade issue, followed by contradictory statements.

    And me pushing for the tax cut for working people and him fighting it I don’t think his listeners much liked that

    Reply

    RyanVMarkov Reply:

    It is like the movie “The Others”.
    Our opponents, 99% of human population today, are dead and don’t even realize it. The problem is that the dead don’t even know it and can’t see the live – we live in parallel worlds. In our case we need a nice medium to deliver the message and bring the dead back to our world.

    Reply

    RyanVMarkov Reply:

    Oh forgot – Peter Schiff is veery dead – no medium on earth will ever establish contact with him.

  16. wh10 Says:

    Warren,

    Nice job. He’s a tough one, with the muting and cutting you off.

    The problem was essentially that Schiff thinks inflation is inevitable if the govt spends without destroying money via taxes. He agrees the govt can spend more without defaulting, but he is adamant this would be inflationary.

    So I wish you guys could have spent more time discussing *why* inflation isn’t a threat going forward and under your plan.

    Reply

    Broll The American Reply:

    @wh10, This is the huge hurdle anytime you try to get someone to wrap their minds around MMT. Its like people can accept and will embrace depression and poverty, but a little but of inflation is the most horrific thing ever.

    Reply

    Joe C Reply:

    @wh10,

    The guy is a dissembling pro. Between the interruptions, commercial breaks, and mischarecterizations, Schiff keeps people off balance and his audience confused. This allows him to be the subject matter expert at all times.

    Warren did a good job of trying to build from the ground up, but the format was simply not a good one. Someone over at Mike Norman’s place mentioned an RSA Animate piece – now that could go viral!

    Reply

    Greg Marquez Reply:

    @Joe C, Yes, Yes, Yes exactly. I’ve been wanting to suggest RSA animate for Stephanie Kelton’s talk the one with the horrible video. Another thought would be Smart Bubble Society that does a similar job with animations.

    Reply

  17. Kristjan Says:

    He is still talking about It now on air.

    Reply

  18. Bob Salsa Says:

    Wow, what a waste of Mosler’s and my own time.

    Schiff has one of the most closed minds in the business and uses his microphone to prevent any notion that challenges his preconceptions.

    The only sliver of a silver lining was his admitting that a monetarily sovereign nation owing its debt in its own currency cannot default. Since the debt ceiling silliness, that has at least become conventional wisdom.

    Reply

  19. Broll The American Says:

    After Warren went off the air, Peter called Warren’s comments “unintelligent.” He called it an “interesting conversation” really sarcastically.

    Reply

  20. Mike Norman Says:

    Schiff is a total xxxxxxxx, period. It’s unbelievable to me how a clown like this can achieve such success. Only in America.

    Reply

    Oliver Reply:

    @Mike Norman,

    As a non-American, I can only agree. He has the oratory skills of a 12 year old, glue sniffing street child. Anything before and after the interview, which was comparatively civil, the jingles, the voice, everything, is inane and puerile beyond belief.

    On a more sober note: First, well done Warren!

    Second, I think there’s general room for improvement for describing the output gap from the supply side, as in all that would be produced if we had more money and from the monetary side, as in the space between a balanced budget and the onset of inflation, as well as for describing the concept of deficits themselves. Not that I think Schiff gives a tinker’s cuss about supply or demand, as long as his dollar stash remains shiny and valuable – but anyway.

    As Vickrey put it back in ’96:

    If General Motors, AT&T, and individual households had been required to balance their budgets in the manner being applied to the Federal government, there would be no corporate bonds, no mortgages, no bank loans, and many fewer automobiles, telephones, and houses.

    One could expand from there to the crowding out argument:

    If you take out a loan to buy a house or if a company issues debt to finance production, does that mean your neighbour can’t buy a house or another company can’t produce goods? Of course not, otherwise we’d have to ban that sort of thing! And neither do government deficits. But,as opposed to households or companies, governments have the obligation to make sure that there’s enough money around to keep everyone at work and production at capacity. That won’t happen if the deficit is too small. And in fact, with a Fed that controls interest rates, government created money, as opposed to bank credit or corporate papers, could even be interest free! That’s what we should be demanding, not some arbitrary size of a balance sheet!

    Or sumpn’ like that…

    Btw., did you know that Schiff is originally a German (Austrian?) name that means ‘ship’ but, as a noun derived from the verb ‘schiffen’ can also mean ‘rain’ or ‘piss’? Punny, I find.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    Thanks, and didn’t know that!

    Reply

  21. Mike V Says:

    Schiff is an entertainer. One trick pony that is rude, egotistical and predictable. He has a business to run that needs a certain perspective pushed.

    I would only debate someone like that with a moderator that could turn off his mic when he becomes obnoxious.

    Reply

  22. Matt Says:

    Interesting that he’s having problems with his phones but the callers that can get through are all supporters…

    Reply

  23. Ming33 Says:

    I only caught the last 10 minutes with Schiff and then his post interview critique. I agree with Mike Norman.

    From what I heard Schiff beat Warren about the head and shoulders with the “printing prosperity” argument.

    Anyway, I don’t know if you’ve seen this already, but a clever music video recently came out that hits a few MMT concepts. I think it points out that people are desperately looking for answers. Too bad they won’t find it with Schiff.

    Reply

    Greg Marquez Reply:

    @Ming33, That was pretty good… And stocks go up but the jobs dissappear…

    Reply

  24. Charles Hayden Says:

    Hey, anyone got the audio recording of Warren v Schiff? I missed it.
    Help! Post a link! Thanks.

    Reply

    Matt Reply:

    @Charles Hayden,

    The live show is just about to end but there is a link above that says it will replay on a loop for the next 24 hours.

    Reply

    Matt Reply:

    @Matt,

    Looks like the loop isn’t working. I see that he has some interviews from earlier in the week up so maybe we’ll see Warren’s up soon on the streaming page.

    Reply

  25. Matt Says:

    Ok just listened to the replay of the interview. Great job Warren!

    It’s clear Schiff did almost zero preperation for the interview as he tried to imply that the grounds for supporting for the elimination of FICA taxes also support the elimination of ALL taxation. Of course 5 minutes reading Warren’s arguments would have made clear that SOME taxes are necessary to create demand for the currency. So either zero prep work, or he read it and decided to argue in bad faith.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    thanks!

    I also suspect his audience was very interested in the idea that the govt is over taxing us due to unspent income,
    and that his refusal to engage didn’t go unnoticed. Remember, Tea stands for ‘taxed enough already’

    Reply

    Mario Reply:

    @Matt,

    how did you get to it? I couldn’t make it to the live show and I’m trying to get onto the loop but it’s not letting me…it keeps looping me to buy a subscription!!! Dear God no!!! LOL

    Reply

  26. DAB Says:

    Always enjoy hearing WM speak.

    So, if we were to “pay off” the debt and an equal amount taxes were imposed as an Austrian would do, would there be any money left in the system? how much + or -?

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    net financial assets in the economy would be 0

    Reply

    Art Reply:

    @WARREN MOSLER,

    “net financial assets in the economy would be 0″

    So would employment in the above ground economy, if we allowed it to go that far.

    http://symmetrycapital.net/index.php/blog/2011/08/voters-get-your-heads-around-this-asap/

    Reply

  27. Mario Says:

    Warren this was really, really well done. You handled him MASTERFULLY. Egg all over his face. GREAT JOB!!!

    This was really, really good and very informative. Yes it was so funny that even with more importing he STILL sees only inflation!!! It’s EVERYWHERE MAN!!!

    Reminds me of Lady Macbeth from said play. Her famous line regarding seeing spots of blood on her hands the king she murdered that are not actually there: “Out damned spot! Out, I say!”

    Doct. You see, her eyes are open.

    Gen. Ay, but their sense is shut.

    Doct. What is it she does now? Look, how she rubs her hands.

    Gen. It is an accustomed action with her, to seem thus washing her hands. I have known her to continue in this a quarter of an hour.

    Lady M. Yet here’s a spot.

    Doct. Hark! she speaks. I will set down what comes from her, to satisfy my remembrance the more strongly.

    Lady M. Out, damned spot! out, I say! One; two: why, then, ’tis time to do ’t. Hell is murky! Fie, my lord, fie!

    Act V. Scene 1. Lines 24-37

    sounds like Peter Schiff to me!!! LOL ;)

    Reply

  28. Mario Says:

    I’ll say one thing Warren…you are a very respectful man. One of the most respectful people I’ve probably ever met. If I could be half the man you are in that regard, I’d consider myself accomplished. I just get so enraged and upset when I see people choose will-full ignorance. I’m working on it, step by step. I’m sure that’s one reason why you have had a good career in finance and keeping your cool and wits about you. Having a place in St. Croix might also do wonders on my relaxing too I’m sure!!! LOL

    one day….one day….

    Reply

  29. JohnE Says:

    1.Could private citizens offset the drag on aggregate demand caused
    by tax deferred retirement accounts by borrowing an equal amount
    from their local banks to buy second homes,cars, etc.
    2. I think the main hurdle for people to overcome with MMT
    is the concern that government will grow in size without the
    check of the idea that spending has to be financed by taxes.
    Although , I accept all the tenets of MMT, I share that concern-
    from a liberty concern not a solvency concern.

    Reply

    Mario Reply:

    @JohnE,

    #1. could happen for some time but probably not sustainable…especially these days

    #2. perhaps. however remember spending is controlled by congress so if anything did get passed it would need to go through that “process.” Not sure if that’s good, bad, or incredibly frightening news these days but there you go!

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    1. yes. borrowing is the reverse of savings, so consumer borrowing ‘counts’ as a reduction in nominal savings.

    2. either you believe in representative govt. by an informed electorate or you don’t?

    Reply

    JohnE Reply:

    @WARREN MOSLER, I am not a
    true believer in direct democracy and neither were our
    founding fathers. That’s why they setup a constitutional
    republic with appointed judiciary and indirect election
    of the president. But, yes the legislature appropriates funds.
    Yes, if the electorate was informed. Heck, even our elites
    aren’t informed as your experience trying to explain fiat monetary functioning demonstrates as well
    as any recent phenomenon. As Churchill is often attributed:
    ‘America always does the right thing, AFTER it has exhausted all other possibilities’. But at least we believe in the
    empirical method.

    Reply

    Art Reply:

    @JohnE,

    1. Has worked at times, eg, 1990s thru ~2006. But all currency users face a limit in how much financed consumption they can do. The monopoly supplier of net financial assets still has to fill its role, just as gold mines had to do under a gold std.

    2. The check is inflation tolerance. Also, consider the many ways in which a federal govt deficit can be allocated (tax cuts, safety nets, infrastructure, public and social investments, etc). If the major parties could get their heads around modern money, they could fight over the stuff that really matters.

    Reply

  30. MamMoTh Says:

    I finally listened to the show.

    I think the only thing Warren might have achieved is convincing Schiff to move his business to St Croix to pay less taxes.

    Give him a t-shirt to welcome him.

    Next time you are interviewed by someone like Schiff, mention the website as many times as you can. Maybe some people would be curious enough to check it because he didn’t let you say much.

    Did anyone try to call during the show?

    Reply

  31. LetsGetItDone Says:

    I listened too. Peter can’t keep his mouth shut for two seconds, like Chris Matthews. He finally agrees that there’s no solvency and that the issue is inflation; but then shuts down the discussion so you can’t explain why his inference that there will be inflation is false. Great try Warren! Wonderful patience. Don’t know if I could have done that in your shoes. I’m sure I would have insulted the putz!

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    thanks,
    I’d guess his regular listeners would have liked to have know more about the bit about how govt. policy is causing a restriction of our natural prosperity by over taxing us for the size govt we have. And that the reason there is the unspent income that allows taxes to be lower than spending is the govt sponsored tax advantaged savings laws, etc.
    I don’t think they liked him shutting down discussion of what seemed like a legit reason to cut our FICA taxes that hurt most of them.

    Reply

    MamMoTh Reply:

    @WARREN MOSLER,

    I don’t think they liked him shutting down discussion

    I am quite sure that’s what they like and why they keep listening to him.

    Reply

    Art Reply:

    @LetsGetItDone,

    Putz??? He’s a visionary. Says so right on his site.

    Reply

    Robert Kelly Reply:

    @Art,
    I guess if your whole business is the promotion of shiny metal you have to cut off any information contrary to that position. Schiff is certainly good at that.

    Reply

    Art Reply:

    @Robert Kelly,

    Promoting shiny metal? Or Peter Schiff? ;)

    LetsGetItDone Reply:

    @Art, Definitely, the pioneer of putzdom!

    Reply

  32. Art Says:

    Best line of the interview?

    Schiff to Warren: “Compose your thoughts…”

    Reply

    Art Reply:

    I found Pete pretty civil for the first half of the interview. But in the second half — you know, after Warren had composed his thoughts :) — sounded like he was in full-on legacy protection mode.

    Reply

  33. beowulf Says:

    There’s only one man who could talk over Peter Schiff…
    http://traderscrucible.com/2011/11/17/instant-classic-shooting-up-the-charts/

    Reply

    Robert Kelly Reply:

    @beowulf,
    Between you and Cullen and these videos I’m not getting any work done. Good thing it’s Friday.

    Reply

  34. Yuu Kim Says:

    forgive me, warren, but that was excruciatingly painful to listen to.

    though i can understand why you would want to do it, i just don’t think it’s worth it to go on that fool’s show ever again.

    i seriously think the most effective way to counter this guy and all the rest is to answer him (or them) separately, and not at a face-to-face debate, cuz all they’ll do is shout you down and take up all the time.

    hopefully, you or some of the knowledgeable ones here will make youtube videos in response to each of his “vlog” posts. that, i think, is the most effective way to reach his audience. just make the titles of your posts similar to his, that way, when they search for him, your posts will come up in the search, as well.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    Agreed! I thought one time was fine, but not again.

    Reply

  35. JohnE Says:

    @WARREN MOSLER, I am not a
    true believer in direct democracy and neither were our
    founding fathers. That’s why they setup a constitutional
    republic with appointed judiciary and indirect election
    of the president. But, yes the legislature appropriates funds.
    Yes, if the electorate was informed. Heck, even our elites
    aren’t informed as your experience trying to explain fiat monetary functioning demonstrates as well
    as any recent phenomenon. As Churchill is often attributed:
    ‘America always does the right thing, AFTER it has exhausted all other possibilities’. But at least we believe in the
    empirical method.

    Reply

  36. RobP Says:

    I live in Australia and listen to a number of US podcasts to get an idea of what’s going on over there. This is the first time I have heard of Warren Mosler.

    In my opinion Peter Schiff didn’t handle this interview well. He was underprepared and constantly talked over Warren. Ha, even I know St Croix is not in Florida!

    Hence I was motivated to seek out Warren’s ideas for myself. Thank you Peter Schiff!

    Reply

    beowulf Reply:

    @RobP,

    Rob, one of my Warren’s Modern Monetary Theory sidekicks is Professor Bill Mitchell. You should check out his blog. Besides Bill’s many insightful posts on the US economy, he offers the added value of also frequently commenting on the Australian economy (Bill teaches in New South Wales).
    http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/

    Reply

    Sergei Reply:

    @beowulf,

    “he offers the added value of also frequently commenting on the Australian economy”

    offtopic … Does anybody here have a good link to an in English speaking resource about Swedish economy?

    Reply

    beowulf Reply:

    @Sergei,

    No sir, But I do have a good link to English speaking Swedish resource about movies based on John Grisham novels.
    http://damianpenny.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/why-arent-we-at-home-with-our-mammals-watching-razeball/

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    good to hear it, thanks!

    Reply

  37. DAB Says:

    Is this a true statement?

    Once upon a time the entire amount of cash in America was only (for example sake) 100 million dollars. If we had a balanced budget since then, that means that the total amount of money TODAY in the dollar zone would be 100 million dollars. As the population increased there would be less and less money per person, all asset prices would continuall­­­y deflate, all mortgages would continuall­­­y be underwater from the moment you bought them, add in a trade deficit and ALL money would be completely sucked out of the system until nothing was left…

    Reply

    Art Reply:

    @DAB,

    Some of it.

    “Once upon a time the entire amount of cash in America was only (for example sake) 100 million dollars. If we had a balanced budget since then, ”

    Assumes a soft currency where the govt is the monopoly provider of net financial assets, AND no credit transactions.

    “that means that the total amount of money TODAY in the dollar zone would be 100 million dollars.”

    The “dollar zone” and trade deficit stuff needlessly complicate things, I think. Let’s simplify and assume we’re talking about a closed economy (like the world, for example) with a single currency.

    “As the population increased there would be less and less money per person,”

    Correct, if there are no credit transactions.

    “all asset prices would continuall­­­y deflate,”

    Except money, of course. :) This assumes a growing economy (which a growing population should make possible) and that the unit of account is never re-calibrated (e.g., yesterday’s 1,000 is equivalent to today’s 1,000,000; like saying a CM is now an inch in real terms).

    “all mortgages would continuall­­­y be underwater from the moment you bought them,”

    Yes, as long as the nominal contract is not indexed to the real value of the currency, and ignoring local market effects (it’s possible that some would be above water).

    “add in a trade deficit and ALL money would be completely sucked out of the system until nothing was left…”

    Assumes net exports are always negative, but at some point, external money holders would probably buy something from you.

    Similar dynamics would occur elsewhere, i.e., money being “sucked out” is inherently destabilizing. At some point, policy would push in the other direction.

    Reply

    DAB Reply:

    @Art,

    Thank you for the help, yes those were my assumptions just to make a particular point.

    Reply

    Unforgiven Reply:

    @Art,

    “As the population increased there would be less and less money per person,”

    Art: Correct, if there are no credit transactions.

    It’s my understanding that credit doesn’t add NFA’s to the system, as that money has to be paid back (plus interest and fees). It just stirs the water in the pot, it doesn’t add more water.

    Reply

    AK Reply:

    @Unforgiven,

    Net financial assets aren’t created via credit. However in times of credit expansion, the money supply would increase since more deposits are being created (via loan creating) than deposits destroyed (via loan payback).

    DAB Reply:

    @Unforgiven,

    That’s the point I was trying to make to someone else… Of course you could have everyone run up their credit cards. You would have to because that would be all that was left to do! :)

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    (and don’t forget to define ‘money’ for purposes of this discussion)

    Unforgiven Reply:

    @Art,

    I get your point.

    This introduces quite a few variables. Dear me.

    Reply

  38. Kristjan Says:

    Peter Schiff needs to learn this:
    http://money4nothingchicks4free.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/dont-look-at-me-the-american-banker-said-it/

    Reply

  39. Matt Says:

    Honestly, Warren, what is the point? The medium you’re working with allows you simply to preach to the choir and not to enlighten anyone who is unfamiliar with the basics of MMT: there simply is not enough time, all the more so when faced with a person like Schiff.

    If you must, for some reason, do such interviews, I really recommend that you forward them a short list of ground rules: no interruptions between making points, would be the first and cardinal rule. The second rule would be: first read my “7 Innocent Frauds.”

    The third one would be: Have you read my “7 Innocent Frauds?” Yes? If so: do you understand that the government does not need tax dollars to pay for anything? Do you understand the basic accounting identity of this system: that government deficits equal private surplus totals to the penny? Do you understand that a fiat system is an entirely different system from a convertible non-floating system? Do you understand that the dollar is essentially an accounting unit? Do you understand what is the cause of inflation in such a system? Do you understand what the actual function of taxes is in such a system? Etc. for each of the 7 frauds. If they don’t understand these basic questions, they certainly will not become enlightened within the parameters of a radio interview. I think an enormous amount of time is wasted answering people on this and other blogs who simply refuse to read the basic material and want it spoon fed, when they should be told: first read and reflect on this, then come back if you have questions. Part of our spoiled and entitled mentality.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    appreciated, thanks

    Reply

  40. AK Says:

    Just listened to the show Warren – I actually really enjoyed your style of engaging with Schiff. I notice that you have subtly shifted your approach when speaking to non-MMTers – you’re now attempting to find common ground and slowly coax people over by showing that MMT is compatible with their government size preference.

    I think this is a more successful approach than the more aggressive stance that others on this site have asked you to take. Although I appreciate that MMTers feel significant frustration that others can’t “get it”, we all need to realise one supremely important point: aggressively exposing people’s ignorance is often a surefire strategy for failure, regardless of how correct you are. That is an unfortuante fact of human life.

    A more successful strategy – which I feel you are employing currently – is starting from some carefully phrased, less controversial tenets of MMT that can be explained in 30 seconds or less. Once people agree with those, the debate can be shifted, slowly, to more relevant points.

    Perhaps I am too much of an optimist, but I feel encouraged that the debate has shifted away from solvency and now to inflation. A bout of disinflation/deflation in the U.S would provide some really good ammunition for MMT; insolvency and inflation arguments against MMT would have much less weight.

    Reply

    Mario Reply:

    @AK,

    well said AK.

    I am working myself to be less of a richard when talking to people that refuse to get this stuff. It definitely does help and make a difference.

    I agree that the S&P downgrade laid the smack down on all inflationistas and has done nothing but promote MMT significantly. I personally think (though have no evidence) that much of Wall Street is secretly looking now at MMT and or MMT’s ideas….b/c they do NOT want to get burned in bonds again!! This is a good thing to be sure.

    It appears inevitable for this stuff to be widespread knowledge….the question becomes how much more pain do we need to go through before getting to the gains?

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    thanks, agreed, and good demo of the style you suggest!

    Reply

    Janie Reply:

    @AK,

    Since I’m such a newbie to all this, and have read Mosler’s books three times in order to get it, I have an approach with others that (1) reflects my dawning, and (2) cracks the conversational egg without.

    I make it historical, by saying that I was thinking pre-1972, when the the economy was post-1972. I was thinking the economy should be managed as if we are still on the gold standard, when the US dollar is a non-convertible currency that can’t be exchanged for any metal. Then the currency user/issuer argument, and I go from there.

    I’m lucky in that I’m blessed with little knowledge of all this.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    former fed chairman greenspan once said he attributed the success of the fed to acting as if we were on the gold standard.

    Reply

  41. Mario Says:

    Another fascinating irony with the current strand of quasi-libertarian, gold-bug, inflationistas is that they are both desperately afraid of inflation yet also desperately in favor of less regulation….meaning specifically they do not want to repeal the CFM Act of 2000 and help to stop significantly the speculation in commodities. It’s just insane how some of these issues stack up to me…literally insane.

    Reply

    WARREN MOSLER Reply:

    which is one reason they can’t find a credible representative for the presidential race

    Reply

  42. Unforgiven Says:

    @Mario,

    Probably because they mis-timed the crash and didn’t pull their profits offshore before the tsunami smashed them against the AIG building. I’m sure they’ll get it right next time….

    Reply

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